What word did Jesus use to call God?
I have noticed with deep pain in heart that in the west there is a campaign to market the falsehood that muslims pray to a different God other than the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus. And it helps them to propagate that lie since muslims use the word, "Allah" to mean God which is unknown to many westerner. And many fanatic 'so called religious leaders' say Allah is different than God. There is a common misunderstanding about this name among non-muslims.
Let me try to clear the misconception about it by finding what word Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) used exactly to mean God?
In the Semitic language of Aramaic that Jesus spoke, the Aramaic name that is translated as God in the European bible was actually Alaha. Indeed, Allah of the Qur'an and Alaha of Jesus are the same One. The name God is a relatively new, and perhaps unfortunate, European invention that has been the source of much misunderstanding, fear and hatred.
The English word "God" was, of course, unknown to Jesus. The word "God" comes from the German word "goot" which means the "good one." When Jesus spoke of "God" he employed the word "ALAHA," just as the Hebrew speaking people spoke of ALOHIM and Aramaic speakers call the Good One ALLAH.
All three of these Semitic Names for the One God share the root "AL." Unfortunately, there is no exact translation for "AL." The closest would be to "refer to one's very breath, to one's very heartbeat."
This is the reason for the famous verse in the Koran (Qur'an):
Allah is near to each of us: closer than the very jugular vein.
And muslims perfer to use the word Allah because it is the most pure word that can be given to the Divine Being since it can not be made plural and don't have any gender bias. Entymologically you can not find a more suitable word in all human language that can be used to call One True God.
For details pls visit the following links:
Ref: http://wahiduddin.net/views/unity1.htm, All faith
Labels: Allah, christianity, comparative religion, God, islam, jesus, Jesus Christ
Post to Del.icio.us
| posted by Sadiq Alam @ 10:07 AM
43 comments
links to this post
43 Comments:
hey..thanks for the info...i ma muslim and i never knew about it before..
www.zed89.5u.com
This has been my experience with most Americans. They hear the word "Allah" and you can see the doors and windows close if you look into their eyes. It is due to a lack of understanding.
If it is explained to them that Allah means "The God" those with open minds and hearts relax a bit. These are difficult times, and education about language is crucial to dispel some fears westerners feel about Islam in the present atmosphere.
Thank you for your contribution in this regard.
Peace and blessings,
Bilquees
I didn't hear about it,too.
A touching post Sadiq, what joy one can find in the knowlege of one almighty spirit whom is soveriegn in every way. what view point would express about Jewish Zoinism or the belief of any one religions superioty or "Choseness" over another. i truly think that is were most Americans missunderstanding comes from, much like our Evangelical Christian faiths we are led to believe that Islam teaches damnation for any other faith. What kind of world can we expect when we teach ourselves God loves us more than another?
there is no god.only good and evil.religion is the cause of most of the worlds promblems.money is the root of all evil.treat others as you would like to be treated.go in peace
i dont care what word Jesus used for God. the fact is that he said he was the SON of this god, hence his crucifiction. And if muslims pray to "the same God" then he must also be the father of Jesus but for a muslim to say such a thing is blasphemy.
This is as far as i know anyway, please let me know if i am wrong.
Beloved Mathew,
You need to look back at Old Testament. In Old testament, the word, 'son of God' was used as general term. Infact human race is called son of God.
Then suddenly to ascribe divinity to Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), Christian church in their earlier days had this voting to determine his status. Now in order to establish Jesus with Roman Pagan religion they needed a figure similar to roman gods. this tempted them to adopt the doctrine of "Only begotten"
But unfortunately it was never jesus's own teaching. He rather said, My God and Your God (indicating the same relationship). He didn't said, I'm special and you are not.
To him, all human being was god's son. But church needed a superhuman figure to convince the people of pagan roman empire. so they interpreted his plain teachings to something superficial. hence came the doctrine.
but Muhammad (peace be with him) the last prophet came and cleared all the mis-teachings about Jesus's teachings. He cleared that Jesus was a similar human being and a messenger just as was Moses, David, Abraham, Noah etc. He was never meant to be divine or special.
And that is the reason Muslims are discouraged to call him 'exclusively' son of God. rather we accept that fact that all humab being is son of God. God loves all. nobody is given special preference over other.
hope it clears out the confusion. u can read Old Testamnet to find how many times God referred many other prophets and human race commonly as son of God.
The place where such decision of only begotten son came about was the Councel of Nicea. Where the story of Jesus was painted in a new color.
first of all can i just ask if you read, have read or take the New Testemant to be a historically viable source?? because there are some rather obious things the new testemant has recorded that Jesus said claiming he is the one and only son of God. and yes i agree that we are all "sons of God" but Jesus was his one and only "true" son. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life". Jesus also says that no man shall go to the father but through me, claiming he is the one and only way to the father. If you claim that Jesus was a prophet of God then you must take the things he said as true or else he would be lying and therefore be a messenger from satan. So it is therefore illogical to say that he is a prophet of God and not take what he says as true.
Galations 1:8 also says "Let God's curse fall on anyone, including myself, who preaches any other message than the one we told you about. Even if an angel comes from heaven and preaches any other message, let him be forever cursed. 9I will say it again: If anyone preaches any other gospel than the one you welcomed, let God's curse fall upon that person." this verse rules out the idea that any other "prophet of God" could come and preach any other gosepel. So the teachings of Jesus and Mohammed cannot be from the same God. They can not both be true.
write me back. i like discussions :D
sorry for spelling Muhammad wrong :S
Just realised you might be looking for a verse where Jesus himself actually claims his own divinity. (by the way wasnt that the reason he was put to death :P) anyway here you go. (this was not written by me but it is very good)
Jesus is never recorded in the Bible as saying the exact words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God. Take for example Jesus’ words in John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” At first glance, this might not seem to be a claim to be God. However, look at the Jews’ reaction to His statement, “We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33). The Jews understood Jesus’ statement to be a claim to be God. In the following verses, Jesus never corrects the Jews by saying, “I did not claim to be God.” That indicates Jesus was truly saying He was God by declaring, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30).
comon sadiq where have you gone?? ........ waiting for your reply. its been a couple of days now. :( dont tell me you dont want to debate with me??? comon we have to figure out who has the wright answer or else one of us is going to hell arent we?? will be waiting faithfully for your response,
Matt
Dear Mathew,
Peace be with upon you. I'm here and eagerly read all your comments.
I was busy with some work. also i will post my comment very soon. But let me do some little research. Pls have patience.
i'm as interested as you. i also want this discussion to continue.
thanks,
sadiq
wicked, hope to talk soon.
May God reveal himself to you.
Matt
Here is another post on the issue. But have some more patience. I will quote some more reference.
Jesus called God his Father , but if we look closer we see that Many Prophets called God their Father , and no Prophet including Jesus called themselves the only begotten son of God , except for David (Psalm 2:7)KJV , now let's see the Prophets who called God their Father identically to Jesus :
".....What shall I do when my heavenly Father hath so commanded me ? (Sifra to Lev; Qedoshim 20,26)
"....Since I have done the will of Abba who is in the Heavens "(Lev R para 32)
"......These buffetings have made me Love my heavenly father" (Midr.Tehillim 12:5)"
"I will exalt the lord saying 'thou art my father" (ibid 51:10)
"Beloved are Israel for they are called Son of the Highest" (Aboth 3:3)
**lets now see what the Jews wrote in their Apocryphal books .
"But thy providence O Father Governeth it" (Wis. 14:3)
"O Lord, Father and governor of all my life.."(Eccl 23:1)
"O Lord , Father and G-d of my life.."(Eccl 23:4)
The term "Our Father which art in Heaven" is one of the three major forms of the address in Jewish liturgy .
Torah :
(The following verse is God talking to David about Solomon)" I will be His Father and he will be my son. I will never take my love away from him, as I took it away from your predecessor. (Chronicles 17:13)
Yet the Israelites will be like the sand on the seashore, which can not be measured or counted. In the place where it is said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living G-d. (Hosea 1:10)
The kings of Israel are referred to as sons of God because they are to be His representatives, ruling in his place on earth over His people.
"I said, You are Elokim; you are all sons of the Most High" (Psalm 82:6 )
In conclusion, we see that Jesus only said a phrase that was commonly said by Jews in his days, and Jesus did not claim to have a monopoly on son-ship with God. We are all God's children, Jesus is not the only one and never claimed to be the Begotten one.
Ref: http://www.submission.org/jesus-begotten.html
Also pls check this site for some more facts.
http://www.mostmerciful.com/gideon-bible.htm
Yes i pray to God the Father myself, i refer to him as my heavenly father. And yes i know that they all called God their Father, i never said they didnt.....
Still would like a response to my John 10:30 "I and the Father are one." point because i thik that is a bit different to God is my father. Here he is saying he is the SAME as God.
Also i have a few more scriptures for you which cant really be argued with.
1. Jesus says in John 8:58 " The truth is i existed before abraham was even born! at that point they picked up stones to kill him"
2. John 8:38 "i am telling you what i saw when i was with my father" notice here he says he was WITH his father, this implies more than just knowing him, this means he was WITH him BEFORE he came to earth
3.JOhn 8:42 "If God were your Father, you would love me, because I have come to you from God. I am not here on my own, but he sent me" here he says i have "come to you FROM God" these all imply Jesus was with his father before he came to earth.
Also i have discovered that the Qur'an says that Jesus was righteous and sinless (Sura 3:46; 6:86; 19:19), that Jesus was raised from the dead (Sura 19:33-34), that Allah commanded Jesus to establish a religion (Sura 42:13), and that Jesus ascended into Heaven (Sura 4:157-158)
As i have not read the Qur'an im not sure about these but let me know. And if Jesus was infact sinless then he CANT have been a man because Jesus says "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God"
Blessings
Matt
Dear Matthew,
Peace be with you. We often forget that Jesus himself was a mystic and many of his statement if you take literally, you will fall in error. Thats why many ppl find contradictory statement in Jesus's own mouth in Bible.
But in truth is, those are only contradictory if you translate them literally. And this literal interpretation has caused a lot of confusion regarding the status of Testament itself.
If one knows the way of the mystics, then one should know that the statement a mystic makes depends on the time, space and the audience. Sometime Jesus said one statement to some person, and another time another statement which contradict the first statement. You yourself can find such contradictions many times in Bible. I don't want to figure it out.
My point it, when Jesus say I come from Father in Heaven ... that equally apply for us all.
When Jesus say, I and Father are One. This Oneness is oneness of spirit. And it is shared from Adam to all descendent of Adam since they are made in the image of God. God breathed His own spirit in Adam and therefore to all mankind.
Now if you want to interpret that statement that 'I and Father are one' in literal sense then you will say, Ok then Trinity is not valid as well. Cause when Jesus and Father is same, then why u mention them separately.
I hope u get my point.
Born sinless doesn't mean somebody is not human. Then Adam is also not human being, Eve is not as well.
Raising death is special power given by God to many prophets in the past, including Jesus Christ. And it was meant to Glorify God, not glorify that person itself.
Pls keep an eye on the post. I will be posting some interesting links for more food for thoughts.
Hey sadiq,
ok when Jesus says "i am telling you what i saw when i was with my father" mean that he was conciously with his father and SAW things. i dont know about you but i dont remember being with God and seeing things before i was born. We are born of this world and go to the father when we die, not the other way around. This statement is not a parable, this is truth that he is speaking blatently to someone.
Also adam and eve had never sinned until they ate the fruit yes, but because of this they brought sin into the world and everyone born from then on was "BORN a sinner" the bible clearly tells us this. Jesus however was born sinless and lived his whole life this way.
Also God and Jesus being one does not contradict the trinity this is supporting the trinity theory. The trinity teaches that God, Jesus and the Holy spirit are all ONE but they are all different "forms" God takes. Jesus for example being the form God took when he came to earth as a man, because he clearly could not have come in his form of the Father. Also the bible tells us to baptise poeple in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, clearly supporting the trinity. another example is that satan has his form of the dragon and his earthly form of the false prophet (revelation 16:13) these are both the same or both "one" but they are two different forms he takes.
Also no we are not all "one" with God as you say, the bible says that sinners were born of their father Satan and that we are born again spiritually when we give our hearts to christ. Also Jesus here COULD NOT have been talking in a non literal sense because he did not re-explain himslef when the Jews were about to stone him for claiming to be God. He plainly says why can you not believe me?
Also i would like you to name any other person who has lived on this earth who has been given the authority to forgive sins!! Jesus i believe was the only one, and forgiving sins can only be done by God!
Jesus - "I am the way the truth and the life, no man shall come to the father but through me"
Peace, Matt
This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
Dear Matthew,
before i answer you last post, let me post you some audio lectures on Jesus christ from Islamic perspective.
The person who gave the lecture was a Protestant Preacher who knows Christianity far better.
Here are some links,
go to this site first,
http://hearislam.com/
then click on, Jesus for Muslims.
also listen to,
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/audio/preacher2islam1.mp3
http://www.islamtomorrow.com/audio/preacher2islam2.mp3
it talks a lot of issues regarding
christian doctrines.
hey sadiq,
i dont have the time to listen to all of those, they are huge, the two about the preacher were kinda lame, he was just talking about wat happened to him. He isnt really answering any of my questions. i went to the Jesus for muslims thing, that guy was ok. Still i think muslims focus too much on the idea of the diety of christ being related to him calling himself the "Son of God". As we hgave established saying son of God alone is not a claim to being God, as that term is used in many other places in the bible for many different people. From now I would like if you didnt use the "Son of God is a common term" argument, as i know this is true already!
i would like however for you to find answers to the many other claims Jesus made to him being more than just a man, or just a prophet.
Jesus - "Then he said to them, "You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not.
you cant tell me he claimed to be just a prophet. It's just not logical.
Beloved Matthew,
Lets use common sense, leaving all the pressumptions behind. Forget about the fact that you are a so called Christian, and let me forget i'm a Muslim.
Lets look at the history.
and when it comes to christian doctrine and theology, u hv to bring The Council of Nicea held at 325 AD.
(read more here, http://www.islamtomorrow.com/bible/NicaeaCouncil325.htm)
Now it was decided and voted whether Jesus be potrayed as Divine or be he voted as human being. And they decided the first option and changed bible, destroyed certain gospels (including the gospel of Mary Magdalene).
it was something which was never stated clearly by Jesus. there was nothing indicated by Jesus himself, which required a voting on this.
and that the whole reason why ppl needed to sit back and make a compromise with roman pagan religion to make him Divine so that ppl take him as replacement of their pagan gods.
read what happened in Council of Nicea. read from independent historical ground, not from catholic encyclopedia. read it neutrally and see how christian doctrines which never existed came into being.
i think that can be enough to illuminate your heart to the true teaching of Jesus.
ok by the way im not a catholic, just to straightin that up, im a penticostal christian (believes in baptism of the holy spirit) oh by the way do muslims believe in the holy spirit??? cause thats in the bible..... just wondering.
Well on that page you refered me to there was nothing at all about a vote on Jesus's divinity. Jesus's divinity was not established at the council of nicaea. When Jesus died, and the very earth shook, the roman guards all realised they had crucified the messiah. Also when Paul saw Jesus resurected he proclaimed imediatly that they had crucified the messiah.
Also they did not change the gosepels of matthew mark and luke!!! there is very compelling historical evidence from ancient historians which tells us that matthew wrote matthew and mark wrote mark and luke wrote luke. Also the bible was not put together by the council of nicaea it was established and compiled by the "world church" so to speak, many churches worldwide.
Also The most important reason that Jesus has to be God is that if He is not God, His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the whole world (1 John 2:2). Only God could pay such an infinite penalty. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected - proving His victory over sin and death.
Also i am still waiting for a response to all my scriptures that support christs divinity.
Thanks, matt
(ps. dont forget to tell me if muslims believe in the holy spirit, and if so who/what is he)
Hey sadiq,
hope all is well. Ur taking a while on this one lol. Hope 2 hear from you soon. Im hoping ur taking long, cause ur gona give me a real good response :P
God Bless
Matt
Dear Matt,
on purpose i didn't post. ok if u need the clarification i will post it.
mean while check this post i posted in the main page. check it. it drew some interesting comments.
http://mysticsaint.blogspot.com/2006/03/jesus-actually.html
sadiq
Links that u can learn about Holy Spirit:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1123996016040&pagename=IslamOnline-English-AAbout_Islam/AskAboutIslamE/AskAboutIslamE
http://www.submission.org/jesus/holy_spirit.html
also pls read it, (sorry its very lengthy): (bear in mind Allah = God , just its arabic word)
1- The Role of the Holy Spirit in Islam:
There are two roles that the Holy Spirit is responsible for according to Islam:
1- It creates our "spirits." Allah Almighty uses it to blow into our mothers' wombs our human-spirits. That is why abortion is prohibited in Islam, because the fetus or foetus does have spirit (life) and it is a human being. It's not just a little piece of unliving flesh:
"But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His Spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give! (The Noble Quran, 32:9)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 38:72)"
"When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My Spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him. (The Noble Quran, 15:29)"
"And (remember) her who guarded her chastity: We breathed into her of Our Spirit, and We made her and her son a sign for all peoples. (The Noble Quran, 21:91)"
"And Mary the daughter of 'Imran, who guarded her chastity; and We breathed into (her body) of Our Spirit; and she testified to the truth of the words of her Lord and of His Revelations, and was one of the devout (servants). (The Noble Quran, 66:12)"
2- It is used to provide Divine Guidance to the Believers, those whom Allah Almighty Loves and Favors. It's not just the Holy Spirit that gives Guidance. Angels too give it:
"Raised high above ranks (or degrees), (He is) the Lord of the Throne (of Authority): by His Command doth He send the Spirit (of inspiration) to any of His servants he pleases, that it may warn (men) of the Day of Mutual Meeting,- (The Noble Quran, 40:15)"
"Say, the Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to strengthen those who believe, and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims. (The Noble Quran, 16:102)"
"Thou wilt not find any people who believe in God and the Last Day, loving those who resist God and His Apostle, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a Spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). God will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of God. Truly it is the Party of God that will achieve Felicity. (The Noble Quran, 58:22)"
"Then will God say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.' (The Noble Quran, 5:110)"
So as you can see, Allah Almighty Created the Holy Spirit for specific functions not only on this earth, but also perhaps else where in the Universe where we don't know about. But it is in no way GOD Almighty Himself.
2- The Role of the Holy Spirit in the Bible:
The Bible is similar to the Noble Quran regarding the role of the Holy Spirit. It never claimed that the Holy Spirit is GOD Almighty Himself. In section 4 below, you will see some of the types of the Holy Spirit, or Spirit, that GOD Almighty Created for Mankind. But for now, let us see what the Bible says about the Holy Spirit:
"When you send your Spirit, they are created, and you renew the face of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:30)"
"Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence? (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 139:7)"
"Teach me to do your will, for you are my God; may your good Spirit lead me on level ground. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 143:10)"
So far, these verses are talking about the Spirit from GOD Almighty. The first verse above, Psalm 104:30, perfectly agrees with the Noble Verses above about GOD Almighty Blowing His Spirit into our mothers' wombs when we're fetus.
So does this now mean that the Holy Spirit, in the Bible, is part of GOD Almighty?
Absolutely not! The Bible is filled with figurative speech. I've written a detailed article proving this using many examples. The Holy Spirit mentioned above is a creation from GOD Almighty. It's purpose is to create our spirits as mentioned in Psalm 104:30. Another purpose for the Holy Spirit is to Guide the Believers:
1 Samuel 16:16 "Let our lord command his servants here to search for someone who can play the harp. He will play when the evil spirit from God comes upon you, and you will feel better." GOD HAS AN EVIL SPIRIT?! Obviously not, it's only metaphoric as mentioned above.
1 Samuel 18:10 "The next day an evil spirit from God came forcefully upon Saul. He was prophesying in his house, while David was playing the harp, as he usually did. Saul had a spear in his hand..." ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD?! Again, it is only metaphoric.
1 Samuel 19:9 "But an evil spirit from the LORD came upon Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the harp,..." ANOTHER EVIL SPIRIT FROM GOD?!
1 Kings 22:23 "God sent LYING SPIRITS to lie to people" Does GOD lie?!
Numbers 24:2 "When Balaam looked out and saw Israel encamped tribe by tribe, the Spirit of God came upon him"
Judges 3:10 "The Spirit of the LORD came upon him, so that he became Israel's judge and went to war. The LORD gave Cushan-Rishathaim king of Aram into
the hands of Othniel, who overpowered him."
Judges 6:34 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet, summoning the Abiezrites to follow him."
Judges 11:29 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon Jephthah. He crossed Gilead and Manasseh, passed through Mizpah of Gilead, and from there he advanced against the Ammonites."
Judges 14:6 "The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power so that he tore the lion apart with his bare hands as he might have torn a young goat. But he told
neither his father nor his mother what he had done."
Judges 14:19 "Then the Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power. He went down to Ashkelon, struck down thirty of their men, stripped them of their belongings and gave their clothes to those who had explained the riddle. Burning with anger, he went up to his father's house."
Judges 15:14 "As he approached Lehi, the Philistines came toward him shouting. The Spirit of the LORD came upon him in power. The ropes on his arms became like charred flax, and the bindings dropped from his hands."
1 Samuel 10:6 "The Spirit of the LORD will come upon you in power, and you will prophesy with them; and you will be changed into a different person."
1 Samuel 10:10 "When they arrived at Gibeah, a procession of prophets met him; the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he joined in their prophesying."
1 Samuel 11:6 "When Saul heard their words, the Spirit of God came upon him in power, and he burned with anger."
1 Samuel 16:13 "So Samuel took the horn of oil and anointed him in the presence of his brothers, and from that day on the Spirit of the LORD came upon David in power. Samuel then went to Ramah."
Luke 1:35 "The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you (Mary), and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God."
Luke 2:25 "Now there was a man in Jerusalem called Simeon, who was righteous and devout. He was waiting for the consolation of Israel, and the Holy Spirit was upon him."
There are, as I mentioned, several types of this Spirit as mentioned in section 4 below.
So if Jesus is GOD because the Holy Spirit came upon him, then the others mentioned above should also be GOD Almighty too.
3- The Holy Spirit is a Creation of GOD Almighty and it is under Him just like the Angels according to the Noble Quran:
Allah Almighty Said:
"The Day that the Spirit and the Angels will stand forth in ranks, none shall speak except any who is permitted by (God) Most Gracious, and He will say what is right. (The Noble Quran, 78:38)"
"A questioner asked about a Penalty to befall- The Unbelievers, the which there is none to ward off,- (A Penalty) from God, Lord of the Ways of Ascent. The Angels and the Spirit ascend unto Him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years: Therefore do thou hold Patience,- a Patience of beautiful (contentment). (The Noble Quran, 70:1-5)"
"Therein come down the Angels and the Spirit by God's permission, on every errand: (The Noble Quran, 97:4)"
"Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to God) Most Gracious as a servant. He does take an account of them (all), and hath numbered them (all) exactly. And everyone of them will come to Him singly on the Day of Judgment. On those who believe and work deeds of righteousness, will (God) Most Gracious bestow love. (The Noble Quran, 19:93-96)"
These Noble Verse are the Ultimate knock out to the polytheist trinitarian pagans who are trying, through their absurd writings, to prove that the Holy Spirit in the Noble Quran is the other part of Allah Almighty; that he is at least a dual GOD if not a triune one.
As you clearly see from these Noble Verses and the ones above in the beginning of the article, trinity and plurality of GOD Almighty is blasphemy! So dear Muslim brothers and sisters, please be cautious from these satanic deceivers and their new tricks and desperate false interpretations of the Noble Quran.
4- Why can't we call it GOD as trinitarians do?
First of all, it is important to know that satan's biggest lie, trinity, is only an interpretation and a conclusion. There is not a single text in the Bible that says the Holy Spirit is GOD Almighty, nor does that satanic word, trinity, even exist in the Bible. People during Constantine's days around year 325, because they were and still are naturally inclined to idol worship, polytheism and paganism as the Far Eastern religions are today, they decided to consider Jesus and the Holy Spirit as GOD Almighty. Satan's deception and evil is overwhelming and powerful. It is no surprise that people fell for this lie by the billions throughout history, as many more billions had fell for satan's lies in the Far Eastern pagan religions. Trinity, like I said, doesn't even exist in the bible. The word doesn't exist anywhere in the book, nor do we have any text that says Jesus is the Creator of the Universe. The same also goes for the Holy Spirit.
The reason why Muslims don't call the Holy Spirit as GOD Almighty is because it is just a creation of GOD Almighty with specific and limited duties as I clearly demonstrated above from the Noble Quran. Like the Angels and the other Universal Spirits, the Holy Spirit is unknown to us and we can't fully describe it. But nonetheless, this doesn't give anyone the right to start getting colorful and smart and deceive the weak-minded and call it and other creations as GOD Almighty.
I have a long and detailed section that refutes the lie of trinity from the Bible. It's best if you read it and see the Truth for yourself.
Also, it seems clear that the Bible has several types of Universal Spirits, or Holy Spirits. For instance, we see a prediction about the "Spirit of Fearing GOD" being installed in the coming Prophet, Jesus:
Isaiah 11:1-3
1. A shoot will come up from the stump of Jesse; from his roots a Branch will bear fruit.
2. The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him (Jesus)-- the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD (Jesus fearing his GOD)--
3. and he will delight in the fear of the LORD. He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears;
As we see in Isaiah 11:1-3, there is:
1- Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding.
2- Spirit of Counsel and of power.
3- Spirit of Knowledge.
4- Spirit of the fear of the LORD.
Also, the verses above say "and he will delight in the fear of the LORD", which clearly proves that Jesus is under GOD Almighty and can not be equivalent to Him or part of Him, because GOD Almighty has no fear in Him. He Created fear, or the Spirit of Fear, and He installs it on whom ever He pleases. But He Himself doesn't have that Spirit in Him!
The verses above also say "He will not judge by what he sees with his eyes, or decide by what he hears with his ears;...", which further proves that Jesus is not part of GOD Almighty, because GOD Almighty Speaks and Hears whatever He Pleases!
The Bible's New Testament also records Jesus saying: ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"
If Jesus doesn't consider himself as "good", then how can any sane person put him on the same level as GOD Almighty?
I have yet to see a good answer to this one by any polytheist trinitarian.
Also, another important point to notice in Mark 10:18 is the word "alone": ""Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good–except God alone." (From the NIV Bible, Mark 10:18)"
Jesus in this verse is clearly giving exclusivity to GOD Almighty when he said "alone". If Jesus was truly part of GOD Almighty and/or the trinity lie was true, then Jesus, to say the least, would not have said that.
Hey sadiq,
Im really busy with university exams for about the next week, but ill be back in to full swing after that. So dont expect quick responses or long descent ones haha.
Ok well my idea on the "Why do you call me good? only God is good." is that to take the form of Jesus, God had to take on the limitations of the flesh (being human). Therefore Jesus on earth could not have been "truely good" as God is because he was limited by the fact that he could only do what God allows him John 8:26 (For I say only what I have heard from the one who sent me, and he is true."
Also you can find the story of the young rich man in mark butwe see a slightly different account in matthew. and since matthew was actually an eyewitness and disciple of Jesus he would probably have the better account. Matthew 19:16 16Someone came to Jesus with this question: "Teacher, what good things must I do to have eternal life? 17 Why ask me about what is good? Jesus replied. Only God is good."
The difference in translation here is what word "good" is related to. In mark it is "Good teacher" and in Matthew it is "good things".
You can also find slightly different wordings in each translation of the bible. Some say "why do you call me good?" (from what i can see this is only the KJV) and in pretty much all of the other translations it says "why ask me about what is good" (or words to that effect)
The real issue here is tranlation and since i cant read greek i cant get you an answer right now, but my friend has a Greek New Testemant and i will look into that when i have time and get back to you. (cool?)
Also i would still like you to give an opposing argument to my many other points that i have made in previous posts about Jesus's claims to divinity.
And another quick idea for you to ponder on.... Ok here we go :P. In the garden of eden (which to me is a metaphor of heaven also) God walked with a sinless Adam and Eve. As soon as they sinned God cast them out and was no longer completly with them (as we will be in heaven). This shows us that God in his sinless perfect nature can only have sinless people in heaven does it not?? Now i have heard (havent had time to check) that muslims believe that salvation comes by you good deeds outweighing you bad deeds? Now if this was the case and our sin was not forgiven/cleansed then we are not fit to be in the presence of the almighty sinless God. As the bible teaches the shedding of blood (they used to slay lambs) is essential for forgivness of sin. And Jesus simply made it easier for us by being the perfect lamb (as he was sinless throughout his whole life, a feat only one man has accomplished :P) and by his blood our sins can be forgiven. (Matthew 26:28 - "this is my blood"..."it is poured out to forgive the sins of many" also in micha 1:5)
Now without this forgiveness of sins (to come to God as a child) we cannot enter the kingdom of heaven and be with God.
Also have a quick look at Isiah 9:6 as this states the "royal" titles that Jesus will be given. Notice it doesnt say decietful tites or satanic titles or titles of lies. It also says that God will guarentee that he has these titles, and God as you say is not the author of confusion and he would not aim to decieve his children by giving a "man" false names. These titles include Wonderful counceler (holy spirit linked isnt it?), Mighty God... (self explanitory) everlasting father (do i need to continue :P)
Ok hope these points and the previous ones that you still havent formed a returning argument for will keep you busy for the next week until i am finished with my exams.
God Bless
Matthew
Hey sadiq,
My exams are over its easter holidays :D. The exams went pretty well. Now time to relax. Still looking forward to your reply sometime soon hopefully cause i got alot more ready. Hope to hear from you soon.
Peace
Matt
Hello sadiq???
You there?
Dear Matthew,
Hope your exams went well.
I'm also busy with something. here which country u r from?
i may be going to europe. just wondering where r u from?
in the mean time check this link:
http://tinyurl.com/rqe8n
Yeah im from my little corner of heaven in New Zealand :P. Nice and out of the way incase any world wars erupt :P. I mean who cares about NZ haha. Well post again when you have some spare time.
I hope and pray that you come back safe from conference.
Matt
Dear Matthew,
Lovely to know that u r from NZ. surely one of the most blessed place on earth.
Here i got one site for u to explore. Happy researching and i pray that God shows you the path. Indeed He is the only Guide to Truth and God is Truth.
Pls visit this link with a open mind so that the divine light can enter into it without any pre-judgemental block.
http://www.submission.org/christians/
Askings God's blessings for you.
Hey Sadiq,
Not sure if your back from conference yet. I have done awsome in my mid semester exams and i have my end of semester finals coming up in June. Im in the Pre-Vetinary course at the moment,i find out if i get selected in July.
Ok i been thinking alot recently about our discussions and who Jesus himself actually claimed to be. I will let you know where I am at the moment.
I have realise that Jesus never explicitly said that he was God and it can be argued about whether he said it indirectly.
But as im sure you would agree and so would many others he was a great teacher and at least a very important messenger of God who "sits in the place of honour at the right hand of God". But i realised it is contradictory to say that he was a good teacher and not also say that he was God or even that he came to earth to forgive the sins of man. I believe it is contadictory to say either one of these statements without the other. The simple but i beleive effective reasoning for this is that his followers during his 3 years of ministry were convinced that he was God and they worshiped him. This is documented outside of the bible also. To say that he was a good teacher and then to say that the people he taught most got it completly wrong would imply that he did not teach them very well, which contradicts saying he was a good teacher.
Also i recently discovered that it is common belief in islam (is it not??) that Jesus either never crucified or that he was but did not die. Saying this is downright saying that all the gospels are a lie. Also that the many documents written by non christian historians that claim the Jesus was crucified are also lie's. And Jesus himself was also lied when he said that he would be taken to be crucified and rise from the dead in 3 days. Unless you believe the Gospels to not have quoted Jesus correctly of course.
And whether or not Jesus is "God" a good part of his message was that salvation is a gift from God and that salvation does not come by works. This is because no matter how much good works we do we are never good enough to earn salvation and pardon from God. Also God is just and he must punish sin, not simply overlook it. This is contradictory to common muslim belief that salvation comes by the good works of a person.
Also Jesus warned that false prophets would arrise and the way to judge is by his metaphor that if the roots of the tree are pure the branches must be also. I know that the extremist muslims are not the majority but they are still a major branch that spawns from the teachings of Muhammad.
Love to hear from you.
Matt
Hi Sadiq,
I do not seem to get an answer to my question on p.b.u.h. I know the literal meaning but I do not know why the phrase is used.
From
Zomillah.
Also I would like to comment on Matthew's: Jesus: I and the Father are One.
Since God is said to be a mathematician, I would like to answe Matthew thus:
It may not be half plus half = One
but one quarter (or for that matter one hundredth) plus three quarters (or 99 hundredths) = One.
They are not the same but they still equal to ONE.
Zomillah
Zomillah,
Sorry to hear that my explanation was not clear. do u mean, why that particular line, peace be upon him is used?
Matthew,
pls visit my front page and go thru last few posts. i hv time and time again said that Jesus's message was quoted too literally. which caused a lot of confusion.
pls read the post about the book, Jesus the unauthorised version.
u need also to read the hidden gospels which were suppressed and destroyed by early christian church although those gospels were written by constant companions of Jesus (such as Mary Magdalene) etc.
As a sworn protector of faith & religion I must tottally agree w/your article.may GOD,Allah bring you home . buy the way I am sworn to protect all relligeons. May great knowledge come to you my friend in GOD.
confess to the the one(GOD) that u dont know what 2 beleve about Jesus except that he lived a life based on truth and love. I beleve that any power he might have had would have come from u I hope u will show me the truth.
that was 2 matt and sadiq
Thank you for this open and honest discussion.
God is one and Jesus Christ of Nazareth is His Son
Some arguments are somewhat off the point....
The post by Sadiq was about the word that the Holy Prophet Jesus, may peace be upon him, used to refer to and address the Almighty LORD, was indeed Eloh or Alaha or Allah... all derived from the same word, meaning THE GOD.
Now as to His identity or otherwise with the Man Jesus, that is a separate subject, isn't it?
Anyway if we get into it, what appears from the debate is that
1. there are more verses in the Bible of divergence than of identity
2. There are no verses of identity of any Prophet with God in the Torah...i.e. an uncompromising Monotheism,
and 3. This monotheism is confirmed by the last Revelation, the Holy Qur'an, which reaffirms the Torah, rather than John's solitary passage from the New Testament.
Seems to suggest that this passage is the odd one out, no?
In any case its interesting that the Unitarian Church reached more or less the same conclusions as Sadiq.
You need to make it clear that at least one paragraph in your post is a direct quote from the first site you list as a reference. The way it's presented leads the reader to think you wrote it yourself (unless you write on the other website as well, of course). :)
If you check out "God" at the Online Etymology Dictionary you will find that it is not related to the word "good". It's just a coincidence that it sounds like that.
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
Create a Link
<< Home